Arch-atheist Dawkins now thinks serious case can be made for a sort-of God?
According to British journalist Melanie Phillips, when Richard Dawkins and John Lennox had their second debate, at the same location (in Oxford) where Samuel Wilberforce and T.H. Huxley famously debated, Dawkins offered a surprising (for him) admission:
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This week’s debate, however, was different because from the off Dawkins moved it onto safer territory– and at the very beginning made a most startling admission. He said:
A serious case could be made for a deistic God.
This was surely remarkable. Here was the arch-apostle of atheism, whose whole case is based on the assertion that believing in a creator of the universe is no different from believing in fairies at the bottom of the garden, saying that a serious case can be made for the idea that the universe was brought into being by some kind of purposeful force. A creator. True, he was not saying he was now a deist; on the contrary, he still didn't believe in such a purposeful founding intelligence, and he was certainly still saying that belief in the personal God of the Bible was just like believing in fairies. Nevertheless, to acknowledge that ‘a serious case could be made for a deistic god’ is to undermine his previous categorical assertion that
...all life, all intelligence, all creativity and all ‘design’ anywhere in the universe is the direct or indirect product of Darwinian natural selection...Design cannot precede evolution and therefore cannot underlie the universe.
In Oxford on Tuesday night, however, virtually the first thing he said was that a serious case could be made for believing that it could.
- "Is Richard Dawkins still evolving?", Spectator, October 23, 2008
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Personally, I think Dawkins is becoming increasingly incoherent. His latest effort is a bus ad for atheism, which is slam dunk ugly. If the atheists can't hire a better graphic designer, they have more problems than I thought. (What's with the block, upper case letters? Why the fade to yellow on the key message?)
Anyway, why doesn't Richard Dawkins just start speaking in tongues and be done with it. You know, "Is Dawkins also among the prophets?"
Also just up at The Mindful Hack, the blog on neuroscience and spirituality that supports The Spiritual Brain:
US cognitive psychologist Steven Pinker defends freedom of expression in Canada (Is materialist Pinker also among the prophets?)
MercatorNet: Political science - The messy room (junk science watch)
Sorry, but Your Soul Just DIDN'T Die (Tom Wolfe changes his mind)
Adopting a dog can be as good for your health as pills?
I insult everyone who finds it necessary to use an alias. It is a disgraceful convention which should never have been permitted, let alone cultivated. P.Z. Myers has claimed that he loathes anonymity even as 95 percent of his cowardly adoring followers use it daily to hide their real identity. How can a man be as good as his word when no one knows who he is?
I love it so!
It is hard to believe isn't it?
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
It's no alias. My name IS Patrick. I originally used an alias several years ago on UD but changed it to my real name.
On topic, I've heard people claim that with Expelled Dawkins was badgered by Stein until Dawkins finally made the statement they wanted, and then they edited the video to make Dawkins look contradictory. Well, guess what, it appears Dawkins is saying the same stuff elsewhere.
Does that identify you?
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
I guess Dawkins is following the well-documented trend of becoming more outspoken with age. I can think of several examples of UK thinkers whose ideas became more eccentric as they no longer had to worry about colleagues and careers, such as Mary Midgley, Malcolm Muggeridge and Fred Hoyle. Closer to home, I think we have a fairly clear example on this blog. ;)
Since you encourage Alan Fox to speak here, why don''t you cultivate oldmanintheskydidn'tdoit or Arden Chatfield (an alias) or any of the several other cowardly trash that have always infected After The Bar Closes with their foul mouthed, mindless indulgences? An original evolutionary thought has never emerged from either Panda's Thumb or Wesley Elsberry's elite "inner sanctum" where the bottom of the ethical barrel play "can you top this" day after day, month after month, now year after year. Invite PvM (Pim van Meurs) while you are at it. Turn this side show into a playground for your enemies. You might just as well. Keep up the good work. It is no accident that Fox uses the "imperial we." You have a great ally in Alan Fox. Congratulations.
It is hard to believe isn't it?
I love it so!
"Let my enemies destroy each other."
Salvador Dali
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
If you don't like it complain to Denyse. As I've already told you multiple times she now runs the site. In any case Fox has not caused any problems on OE. When the rules used to be different on OE he abided by them. I really don't care what he does on other sites.
I do not whine you anonymous little nothing. I test. I expose. I react. You just told me you are the administrator here. Apparently that was a lie. If you are in charge, be prepared to be insulted. If Denyse is in charge all I can say is that she must approve my remarks or she would get rid of me. Denyse is not responding to me like you are. She is not telling me to "stop whining."
Any blog that cultivates the brand of trash that Alan Fox represents is not going to get any respect from me no matter who is in charge. The ball is in the court of Overwhelming Evidence, just as it is in the court of any other blog that has shut me down or threatens to. I don't give a damn what you do Patrick. Do what you have to do. That is the way it is supposed to be, the way it was "prescribed" to be.
Got that?
Now just what do you intend to do about it?
"Everything is determined... by forces over which we have no control."
Albert Einstein
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
blog because no one read it. No wonder. Look at his off-topic post. He never address the issue at discussion. Instead he makes deep psychological observation and screening of people. Some times ago he criticised at OE also professor University Basel. He had made some cute psychoanalytical observation of professor University Basel and then he realised, that Basel is a Swiss town.
Alan Fox is all the rage here thanks to Patrick, whoever that is. Fox has never had an original idea in his entire pathetic life and as far as I can see neither has Patrick. At least Alan Fox uses his real name but with a name like Alan Fox that doesn't help much does it? One reason I include my middle imitial is because there are too damn many John Davisons and I don't want to be mistaken for any of them.
Incidentally, my good friend Martin does not reveal his complete name for very good reasons which I understand. What are the reasons that the animals at After The Bar Closes and Pharyngula are so unwilling to divulge their real names? I will tell you why. It is because none of them have ever contributed anything to our understanding of the twin mysteries of ontogeny and phylogeny. That's why and its the only reason why. Anonymous authors with very few exceptions are ignorant, frustrated, unfulfilled, wannabe nobodies. Pharyngula, richarddawkins.net, Panda's Thumb and After The Bar Closes are all riddled with such trash, cowardly blowhards all. Half the complete names they provide are aliases, Arden Chatfield for example, and then we have jerks like oldmanintheskydidn'tdo it and albatrossity2 to deal with as well. How about self named Second Class? Now there's an honest man!
I love it so!
It doesn't get any better then this.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
You are right John. The other question is why is Alan allowed to spread his "psychology" here. He should join some psychological venue - because drunken AtBC forum is obviously of no help - and stop spreading his off-topic nonsense on forums like this. But let me also made some psychological observation about him. I noticed that he pursues you at very venue you participate. Perhaps he needs to be criticised by some authority for his childish opinions . That makes him feel "good".
Martin,
Alan has a long history of infatuation with me. He has always followed me around like a dog. It makes one wonder doesn't it? Maybe he suffers from a rare condition known as geriatrophilia which translates as "loving old guys a lot." It is more likely a result of the contempt with which I treat his declared hero Richard Dawkins and his cronies Paul Zachary Myers and Wesley Elsberry, "born to lose" losers all three.
I love it so!
It doesn't get any better than this.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
I'm the infatuated one? With an email box crammed with 120 or so emails from you over a period of a few months? Oh, hypocrisy, thy name is indeed Davison.
PS to Martin. My interest in ID has always been anthropological. Neither John nor you have managed to produce anything that has so far sparked any scientific or philosophical novelty.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
http://jadavison.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/predictions/#comment-1002
Enjoy!
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
You just told me you are the administrator here. Apparently that was a lie. If you are in charge, be prepared to be insulted. If Denyse is in charge all I can say is that she must approve my remarks or she would get rid of me. Denyse is not responding to me like you are. She is not telling me to "stop whining."
No lie. AFAIK Denyse is too busy to actively moderate this site. That's why she has me.
I tried to talk reasonably with you but you continued to throw insults at everyone. Congratulations. You just got yourself demoted. You can still comment but they will go into the moderation queue for me to review. Post on topic without misbehaving then I will eventually promote your user account again. If you continue to rant and rave you will find yourself banned.
BTW, this has nothing to do with Alan Fox or anyone with similar views. I'm not "promoting" anyone...that's all in your mind. This is entirely due to your childish behavior, John.
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-99.html
My most recent comment just for you Patrick.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
I have just been banished from Overwhelming Evidence. It seems that Patrick, whoever that is, is more interested in offering a venue to Alan Fox than he is to me.
This site is open to everyone now, not just students like before. I was simply discussing HGT with you when you abruptly became upset with me for whatever reason. I did not even argue or disagree with you. As I said it is your own behavior that is the problem and not anyone else.
When I am muzzled I am banished. This is really the bottom of the barrel. You speak to me and others at the same time you refuse to allow me to respond. This epitomizes everything that is wrong with internet communication. It is dominated by insecure elitist tyrants protecting their shabby little ghettos from any disturbance. The real world isn't like that Patrick. You give free voice to a foot soldier of the most degenerate, foul mouthed collection of intellectual garbage ever assembled, After The Bar Closes, and you punish me for complaining about your policy. You should be ashamed of yourself. I don't need this blog. I present my views whever I am permitted to speak and you have now made that impossible. Congratulations.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
This site is most certainly not "open to everyone." It is now closed to John A. Davison but remains open to Alan Fox, the roving ambassador of the atheist Darwinian triumvirate of Paul Zachary Myers, Richard Dawkins and Wesley Elsberry. I gave Fox every opportunity to recant his hideous associations and his sneaky methods. I will have nothing to do with a blog that tolerates his presence.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
For you to address me while denying me public response is despicable. You are no better than David Springer who has done the same thing at Uncommon Descent. You are two of a kind, both insecure arrogant trash.
I love it so!
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
I have not "denied you a public response". In fact, you keep repeating the same thing. There is now a delay for you since I usually visit the site every so often. As I clearly said, it is your behavior that is the issue, not anything else. if you continue to behave poorly--attacking other users for no reason--you will be banned. Stay on topic and quit ranting at random and I'll pull your account out of moderation. It's that simple.
"You give free voice to a foot soldier of the most degenerate, foul mouthed collection of intellectual garbage ever assembled, After The Bar Closes, and you punish me for complaining about your policy."
Alan Fox may be foul-mouthed on those other sites, which I don't visit, but he has followed the rules here. He actually rarely comments. You on the other hand have managed to break the rules, limited as they are.
http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe/node/613
You began attacking me and other people without provocation. When I answered your complaint ("ALL users have the ability to write blog posts, not just admins") you then began ranting about David Springer and UD...which has nothing to do with this site. There is no substance to your complaints.
And I'm not punishing you for complaining about the policy. That'd be fine; just state what you think should be changed. It's the unnecessary insults that are the problem. You said yourself "If you are in charge, be prepared to be insulted" which will not be tolerated. If you want to make any changes to OE policy direct your complaints or suggestions to Denyse. I have complete access to this server but I do not "own" it...I merely administrate it.
"I gave Fox every opportunity to recant his hideous associations and his sneaky methods. I will have nothing to do with a blog that tolerates his presence."
As I already said, "If you don't like it complain to Denyse." Speaking of which, I emailed Denyse asking her what I should do about you.
Patrick,
I think I have pretty much exhausted my value to this weblog. I have presented my convictions which have fallen on deaf ears anyway. If you knew about my past dealings with the intellectual vermin that Alan Fox represents, you might better understand my reaction to his presence and to his comments, past and present, about me and my ally Martin. Alan Fox represents the forces of evil as far as I am concerned and I do not say that lightly. Are you aware of some of the things he and his cronies have said about Denyse O'Leary, Bill Dembski and the ID movement generally? Apparently not.
As long as he speaks here there is no need for me to participate. I have better ways of spending my remaining days than to have to endure the presence and caustic drivel of a person for whom I have absolutely no respect.
"Let my enemies destroy each other."
Salvador Dali
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
jadavison.wordpress.com
Speaking to Bill and Denyse, I was surprised to find out that Denyse's role as "site owner" was based upon a contract that has now ceased. She still contributes voluntarily but she's no longer running the show. Bill is currently reevaluating what to do with this site but in the short term he's put me in charge.
That being the case, I'll offer a middle-man solution.
Alan and John: do not direct any comments toward each other, even if they are completely on topic. I'd like to avoid outright hostile conflict, and since you two have a history I think it best you simply do not talk at each other on OE. Otherwise, feel free to comment and write articles as long you keep the tone civil. I'm forgiving of occasional outbursts...just not on a regular basis.
You publish my last and final comment or I will make your life so miserable that you will wish you never heard of me. Then go have a party with the most miserable excuse for a human being that ever walked this earth. You two deserve each other.
Got that? Write that down!
If you have the guts you can publish this one too.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
I have no problem publishing your last comment since it provides a clear record for why you were banned. I try to be fair and you respond with empty threats. If you really desired to continue on this site all you simply had to do was act civil. John, seriously, seek professional help. If your behavior on the internet represents your behavior in person in any fashion then you need it.
It's a pity that professor Davison has been banned. "Alan Fox" from AtBC forum commented not only professor' opinions, but also professor Davison real surname in a way that is unacceptable in a decent society. It was "Alan Fox" who should have been reprimanded by administrator firstly, not professor Davison. But administrator cared obviously more about "Alan Fox's" freedom of denigration and then of his own - Patrick's - ego than for a balanced moderation.
VMartin,
Read the recent comments. I repeatedly asked Davison to behave civilly. I have nothing personal against him and I would have preferred that he remained a contributor if he could control himself. I ask you, what has anyone else done on THIS site that should demand reprimanding?
If you prefer to make from OE discussion venue another branch of drunken neodarwinian AtBC forum it's up to you. Another neodarwinian venue where regulars from AtBC like "Alan Fox" enjoy freedom of denigration. He denigrated professor Davison real name and was not reprimanded. Perhaps neodarwinists are allowed to denigrate real names of opponents of neodarwinian paradigma here freely. But opponents of neodarwinian paradigma should strictly obey the rules of decency.
"He [Alan Fox] denigrated professor Davison real name and was not reprimanded."
Really? I missed this one. Where on OE did it occur?
There isn't any discussion here Patrick anymore. Why don't you invite Alan Fox's cronies from neodarwinian drunken AtBC forum to come here? To revive discussion? It would be a nice neodarwinian venue here. Another neodarwinian branch of drunken "After the bar closes" AtBC neodarwinists. Professor Davison has been banned, but your friend Alan is still here. He is ready. Discuss the outlined problems from neodarwinian point of view with Alan Fox ! You and Alan have all forum just for you. Go on Patrick!
Patrick, shake your hands with EvC and AtBC admins. You are the same idiot as they are. Congratulations you neo-darwinian idiot! Ban me too.
Maintaining an open user policy does not in the least make me a Neo-Darwinist. But you got your wish, you're now in moderation (not banned).
Hehehe, "open user policy". You have banned professor John Davison and now you are going to moderate me. But I hope your friend Alan Fox and other neodarwinian idiots have still free access to this venue to spread their denigrations here. Are you aspiring to become a neodarwinian admin at AtBC or EvC after this forum closes? Your qualification for such a job is excellent.
Of course I'm moderating you. You just called me an idiot. Did I not make it perfectly clear to Davison--and thus to you, since you read the conversation--that constructive criticism of OE policy is allowed but personal insults are not? You can object to Davison being banned all day long...just quit the childish nonsense.
Not so long ago I was a regular visitor to this site, unfortunately one user started posting comments like this:
"You publish my last and final comment or I will make your life so miserable that you will wish you never heard of me. Then go have a party with the most miserable excuse for a human being that ever walked this earth. You two deserve each other."
Is this really the kind of comment which is acceptable anywhere? OE's no-censorship policy is being abused by one user who seems to be unable to participate in the friendly spirit an on-line debate requires. This sort of comment is unacceptable in any forum.
It was "Alan Fox's" post from Sat, 2008-11-01 11:14 which is probably here considered
as written " in the friendly spirit". I underestand that such "spirit" is wellcomed at drunken
"Bathroom wall" in the "After the bar closes" neodarwinian forum. Why such posts are allowed here I do not understand.
Fox should have been reprimanded and banned. Because admin obviously slept it was professor John Davison who defended himself. He doesnot not use nick like many participants here (is Alan Fox real name or not?). That is something that should have been taken into consideration when admin with nick "Patrick" banned professor Davison who defended himself against "Alan Fox".
Behaviour and moderation here is also discussed at professor Davison own blog
http://jadavison.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/th-prescribed-evolutionary-hypothesis/#comment-1062
Because no one here care about behaviour of Alan Fox at his home AtBC I assume no one here will care about opinions presented elsewhere by me and professor Davison.
Fox called John an eccentric and a hypocrite for spamming his email. I don't know if the email spamming assertion is true, but either way that's why I asked that both of them do not address each other on here. And Fox has been on moderation as well, though I forgot to mention it. Considering the animosity you feel, VMartin, I'd ask the same for you as well. Just drop it and move on.
Bobmort,
I gave John several chances but now he's gone. And I'd agree 100% that his comment was unacceptable. Hopefully everyone will settle down soon.
My full and correct name, as recorded on my birth certificate and passport is Alan Fox. Why anyone would want to make an issue of this is beyond me.
I don't think there is much more I can usefully contribute as my views on Intelligent Design are well known. Best of luck in your unenviable role as moderator, Patrick.
Regards
Alan
Richard Dawkins
Each of Dawkins' books has become more bizarre than its predecessor until now he has completely abandoned any semblance of science, finally revealed to be a "prescribed" apostle of Universal Atheism. Just go to Pharyngula and click on the big red A that adorns each days edition of hatespeech to find the real Richard Dawkins, an ally of his New World counterpart Paul Zachary "randomly ejaculating " Myers. There you will be able to purchase Tshirts, coffee mugs and even Bumper Stickers extolling the virtues of ATHEISM, the wave of the future.
It is hard to believe isn't it?
I love it so!
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison